Editing Talk:RBE10K/Plan/Action list

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== Individual Proposals ==

== Ziggy ==

* Stick to technologies that are readily available (don't use technologies that would require research, or that are not sufficiently well established)
* Avoid discussion as much as practicable
* Keep it real, keep it focused (this is the planning for the wiki, not for strategising for the project, or documenting how to implement the project)
* Rely on field experts for each field. We're the wiki field experts, keep it within our expertise
* Focus our work on elements where there is consensus between us, leaving contentious areas to be dealt with later

# Establish if tree-like is desirable for our wiki
# Work on Needs, and prioritise them (request help from the community for this, through the admin team)
# Prioritise actions to take based on the priorities established on Need
# Create templates for the teams required for working on satisfying Needs, by priority, so that we can invite people to join them


== Wouter Drucker ==
I feel I need some more clarity. I'm not used to working with wiki's but I would be glad to help. How does converting to tree structure work? Same for templates? Where is the community based (other than 'likes')? Same for admin team.
Things will probably get clearer soon anyway, but it won't hurt to let you know what I think.
:Subpages are explained here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Subpages. I implemented the first subpage in your own User page, with the link to Notes, check it out! It creates an automatic link back to the previous page
:It would be great if you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_editing_practices and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines. There are others that are more technical and much longer, but these two are a great way to begin. There is also a step-by-step tutorial to learn all the formatting tricks and shit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tutorial/Editing. For a quick reminder of wiki formatting and tags, use this page: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting. Have fun!
:Can you please explain a bit more your question about the communities? Also, when replying to this, please do so increasing the number of colons at the beginning of the line (so you'd continue with lines beginning with ::) and leave a <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> mark at the very end, which is your signature, resulting in this: [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]]) 19:20, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
<hr>

== Andreas ==

I think a Wiki is nice as an overview for planning and can have links to other sources. Also, it is perfect to store the results (current plan). However, I think for the actual planning, other methods might be more useful (e.g. spreadsheets on Google Docs).
:I'm keen on Google Docs spreadsheet as a quick aid in getting us to agree on things, but not really as a general store. Tables can be built quite efficiently on a wiki, it provides open history (so that everybody can see who made which changes), and openness is very important in the project. [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])

Plan:
# What will people need? Information about this can come from general research results and from specific surveys. It will not be sufficient to know what an average person, a "normal" person, or most people need.
##There is a wealth of information about Need, and studies already done, such as the Maslow pyramid. Low level needs are pretty straight-forward, and we can start working on these without delay. The high level needs theorised by these academics, however, are likely highly influenced by the culture within a monetary market system [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]]) 08:09, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
##Behavior is shaped by the environment. Therefore it may be better to take the environment and our technical possibilities as a starting point, rather than needs. Current needs are also established within an environment that is part of a vastly different system then the one we are creating. Needs that are not completely determined by environment are water (2 liters a day), caloric intake (2550 a day for men), and sleep (6-12 hours a day). But even they might vary with environment. Temperature and the amount of physical or mental exercise rely on the environment and level of technology. [[User:Wouter.drucker|wouter.drucker]] ([[User talk:Wouter.drucker|talk]]) 15:54, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
# Which resources are required to fulfill the needs? The list of resources will include goods and services that people need, but also goods and services that are needed to provide goods and services (recursive supply chain). Required resources will include materials, energy, tools, skills, time, etc.
##It is not really for us to solve that. Jacque Fresco's ''I don't know'' applies exactly to this point. We can only list the needs according to studies, and create templates for specialised teams to take care of this information. We're not planning ourselves, but enabling others to provide information according to their skills and knowledge. We must limit ourselves to guide them and ensuring a degree of quality on the wiki, but not write too much ourselves in areas that are not our specific skillset. [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])
# How can the required resources be provided in a sustainable way?
##This will emerge from the empirical information provided by the specialised teams. They will provide, for each problem, a number of solutions, and must grade each solution by a number of values (quality, cost, benefit, scalability, resources required, energetic cost for production and for function, maintenance cost in skilled person time and material resources, expected lifetime, etc). All these values can be used to grade a level of overall cost, benefit and sustainability. The one with the highest grading will be the option selected as the most efficient, cost effective, and sustainable. Something to note: sustainability comes in degress, not absolute terms. Absolute sustainability is desireable, but if it cannot be achieved, the highest sustainability degree should be fine, as the problem can always be resolved later to increase the level of sustainability even further. [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])
# How will resources be acquired that cannot be provided within the experimental community (e.g. initial resources, certain medical treatment, specific things individual people need).
##Such resources must be avoided at all cost. Self-reliance is a top priority and options that require external materials must be avoided if at all possible. If impossible, then we must rethink the satisfaction of such need through other means, or determine what is the community cost for leaving such need unsatisfied. [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])
# Many details of the plan must be developed in a circular or repetitive way. For example: What do people need? Which skills must people have to satisfy these needs? What do people need who can provide these skills? Which skills must people have to satisfy these needs? ...
##Each specialised team must interact with other specialised teams to resolve their own needs. Circularity will be handled by these teams based on their need for accomplishing their task, and in a spiral way through time. [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])
# The Wiki will then slowly be filled with all the information that is required to start the experiment.
##You bet it will, yeeehaaa! [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 == Wouter Drucker ==
-The consensus on needs is that once a certain, relatively modest, level of living standards is achieved, extra wealth does not create extra well being. Therefore it might be a good idea to focus on the basics.
-# Providing basics
-# Sustainable
-# Automated (creating as much leisure time as possible).
-# Gaining the capability to expand number of living spaces with a minimum of extra financial investment (making own bricks from sand etc.), the project could now in theory attract people living in extreme poverty.
-# Focusing on raising level of know how and general education, investments of new participants and donations will for a large part go into technologies and other materials people need to experiment with, in order to expand their level of education.
-# Attracting external talent and know how, due to good atmosphere, kind people and abundant leisure time.
-[[User:Wouter.drucker|wouter.drucker]] ([[User talk:Wouter.drucker|talk]]) 16:20, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
-----
 I feel I need some more clarity. I'm not used to working with wiki's but I would be glad to help. How does converting to tree structure work? Same for templates? Where is the community based (other than 'likes')? Same for admin team.
 Things will probably get clearer soon anyway, but it won't hurt to let you know what I think.
@@ Line 45: / Line 33: @@
 # What will people need? Information about this can come from general research results and from specific surveys. It will not be sufficient to know what an average person, a "normal" person, or most people need.
 ##There is a wealth of information about Need, and studies already done, such as the Maslow pyramid. Low level needs are pretty straight-forward, and we can start working on these without delay. The high level needs theorised by these academics, however, are likely highly influenced by the culture within a monetary market system [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]]) 08:09, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
-##As far as higher level needs are concerned (as opposed to water, food, sleep), behavior is shaped by the environment. Therefore it may be better to take the environment and our technical possibilities as a starting point, rather than needs. [[User:Wouter.drucker|wouter.drucker]] ([[User talk:Wouter.drucker|talk]]) 15:54, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
+##Behavior is shaped by the environment. Therefore it may be better to take the environment and our technical possibilities as a starting point, rather than needs. Current needs are also established within an environment that is part of a vastly different system then the one we are creating. Needs that are not completely determined by environment are water (2 liters a day), caloric intake (2550 a day for men), and sleep (6-12 hours a day). But even they might vary with environment. Temperature and the amount of physical or mental exercise rely on the environment and level of technology. [[User:Wouter.drucker|wouter.drucker]] ([[User talk:Wouter.drucker|talk]]) 15:54, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 # Which resources are required to fulfill the needs? The list of resources will include goods and services that people need, but also goods and services that are needed to provide goods and services (recursive supply chain). Required resources will include materials, energy, tools, skills, time, etc.
 ##It is not really for us to solve that. Jacque Fresco's ''I don't know'' applies exactly to this point. We can only list the needs according to studies, and create templates for specialised teams to take care of this information. We're not planning ourselves, but enabling others to provide information according to their skills and knowledge. We must limit ourselves to guide them and ensuring a degree of quality on the wiki, but not write too much ourselves in areas that are not our specific skillset. [[User:Ziggy|Ziggy]] ([[User talk:Ziggy|talk]])